Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:09 All right. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Cyber Matters, powered by the Kaso Podcast Network. I'm your host, Russ Dorsey, a principal in the c i o here at Kao and Company here in Birmingham. Uh, cyber Matters is a, a, a show where we talk about the cyber, that it matters both, uh, to our, our clients and, and their businesses and families. Uh, it's more about the human side of cyber, about how we're using it to enrich our lives and businesses, but also how we're protecting ourselves in this ever changing world. Um, we're kind of doing a, a summer special, uh, here because it's, uh, you know, it's time. Everybody's on vacation and, uh, you know, post pandemic. We're seeing more people traveling. So we were thinking about the, you know, the, the, the threats overseas. Uh, when, when you go overseas, these are either for a church mission or business trip, or family vacation.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Um, so I reached out to, uh, to Doug Wilson at Counter Threat Group. And Doug, I'm gonna go ahead and bring you on here while I, I, I do the rest of this intro. Um, but, uh, you know, to, to talk more about, uh, in, in a broader sense, uh, going overseas and there's, there's a cyber component to that, but there's also the physical component. So just as a quick unscripted introduction, uh, Doug, I've, I've, uh, we, we've met each other back at an active shooter event back I think in 2018. So Counter Threat Group helped us with something we did out at the church at McAdory, if I remember right. Right. Um, you guys are, are heavily involved in that, that I'm gonna let you talk about counter threat, uh, and what you guys are doing. Uh, but, but you specifically, you retired Lieutenant Colonel, uh, with the US Air Force and the International Guard.
Speaker 1 00:01:35 Uh, you're an intelligence officer during your career there. And when I read your, your bio at length in, I, uh, in one of our previous things that we did, you were, uh, heavily involved in, uh, drone operations and, and things like Iraqi Freedom and things. So if you want to talk more about your career there, but also with, uh, counter Threat Group and what you're doing. You're the co-founder of Counter Threat Group, and then you're the, um, assistant Vice President of University Advancement at Sanford. You've been there about 20 years. Correct. So you're keeping yourself quite busy as most retired people do after the military, right, <laugh>. That's right. That's right. But, uh, but why don't you talk to us just a little bit about, uh, about counter threat, if you want to, and explain what, explain your y'all's role in the community, and then we can talk about, uh, the international travel. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:02:20 Thank you, Russ. Yeah, I, I appreciate, uh, the opportunity and I've enjoyed, uh, working with you over the past several years on some other projects like this, some other interviews with some people we've brought in for, uh, some counter threat group, uh, seminars and, um, kaso as well. And I thank Kassouf and y'all for having me over here to do this today. Um, as you mentioned, I had a, a long military career about 27 years. Um, and in part, a good, a good portion of that was actually in the reserve component, the International Guard. And I was with the one 17th refueling wing that is a tanker operation, and I was an intelligence officer with them. And so we got involved in most every contingency that went on, on, um, well, starting with Bosnia when we converted over to tankers. And anytime there's something going on overseas, they're gonna use every fuelers.
Speaker 2 00:03:07 And so we ended up deploying quite a bit. And so I have, I, I developed a significant, significant international travel experience through that. Had a lot of varied roles as my role as an intelligence officer, and then got involved in some other things outside of my unit because of that. Um, but through it all, I, um, you know, developed a little seminar and session that I started doing for people before Counter Threat Group on international travel safety. Um, we started Counter Threat Group around 2015 through a mutual friend that connected Rick Clipper and me as I know you know, Rick mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, we started Counter Threat Group as more of a church safety awareness type program because I was involved as a, um, uh, on the safety team of a pretty large church here in town. And our mutual friend had connected Rick and I because of the fact that I had this background.
Speaker 2 00:04:00 Um, and so we started getting into doing assessments for, uh, houses of Worship, a lot of churches, because there was a big concern even in 2015 of church violence, whether it's active shooter, acts of terrorism, whatever it is, the violence among within churches, different incidences that were happening in churches around the country, were on the rise at that time and, uh, continue to be even more accelerated than they were then. So, um, the assessment tool that we used then, uh, was a lot of the things that, a lot of the concepts that were used militarily when you're looking at, you know, identifying vulnerabilities. So we did the same process through looking at churches and identifying weaknesses where, uh, somebody could get in that might be looking to do something bad, you know, what are the protocols, you know, doorways, bushes around windows, just all the different things that most people don't notice that we took a real keen eye at and developed an assessment tool that's advanced quite a bit to where we are now with that.
Speaker 2 00:04:55 Uh, but the assessments are kind of the backbone of everything we do, and we have done a lot of those. We've worked with not just churches, but we seem to be doing more outside of the church community, which is really where we need to go. We need to stay with churches, but also extend everything we do to other, we've done law firms, we've done industrial facilities. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we've done healthcare facilities. Um, we're talking to, we just finished a couple churches. We've done a school, a couple schools, and we're looking at other, um, entities now that have contacted us about doing assessments. So that tends to be, uh, uh, uh, an in-demand segment, mainly because people are concerned about workplace violence. Yeah. And as a part of what we do with Counter Threat Group, we also partner with some folks, but we also have the international travel safety component because it's the same sort of thing.
Speaker 2 00:05:40 How do you mitigate bad things happening when you're traveling overseas, just like you would, how do you mitigate a risk in a church or a facility? Um, but we just look at it from a different perspective. And I, I continue with the program that I've done for years, uh, as needed and when asked on international travel safety. So that's kind of how we are where we are today. But Counter Threat Group does a whole lot for businesses, churches, organizations that are interested in, uh, having a more secure and risk, you know, we identify the risk and reduce the risk of bad things happening in the workplace. We can't eliminate it, but we can significantly reduce it by doing these assessments. And so that's really what we're spending a lot of time on these days.
Speaker 1 00:06:19 Yeah. It's, it's, it's rewarding work too. I'm, I'm sure because, and, and certainly when you mentioned the schools, I mean, we, we had that gentleman in here, we did that other segment that had the, the the door barricade system.
Speaker 2 00:06:30 Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:06:30 Yeah. And that was just, just just powerful stuff. What, what drove him into doing that, his motivation for creating this, this system, but also, uh, just seeing how that worked
Speaker 2 00:06:40 And what, and what we do find and when we're doing assessments is there's so many things that most organizations or churches or whatever it's we're looking at that they're doing that really don't require money to fix mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's more procedural type things. It's, uh, access control. Um, but there are some pretty simple fixes that if people will do, they've just significantly reduced the risk. And, uh, some things do in involve an investment of some sort, but it's something that can be done over time to improve, you know, what it is we find. So, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:07:07 Alright. Well, to to to, to move to our topic, and like I said, some are travel and overseas travel. I know there's several people here at, uh, at Kao that have, have, have taken trips, uh, overseas. Um, and you know what, what, what is, I mean, I, I'm not really sure where to move into this. You, you have this nicely bulleted out in sense, so we could just go through the points, but if you wanna start at a 30,000 foot level Yeah. You know, and, and, and unless, uh, unless we can take our time and move into, uh, into some of these bullet points and things. Well,
Speaker 2 00:07:36 I'll start off by saying I've been to, uh, I think I counted as 43 44 countries. So I've done extensive international travel pre covid and post covid. I've done a lot. Um, actually some, we, uh, went overseas last July, about a year ago, and, um, got the experience getting back overseas for the first time since Covid then, uh, and then, um, I've got a trip coming up at the end of August to Uganda, northern part of Uganda. Wow. And then, uh, that's more of a mission related trip and, and got another trip scheduled for the next spring. But, um, getting back into international travel and if you've never traveled before, if you have traveled before, um, everybody you know, is ready to get back out and resume life since, you know, this covid thing that's been gone three years ago now, hard to believe. But, um, one of the biggest things I was listening to today, just right off the bat that I think everybody needs to be aware of is the passport is your ticket that gets you into the country and it's gets you outta the country, gets you back home.
Speaker 2 00:08:32 Um, the most important thing for anybody that wants to travel internationally is to look at your passport, make sure it's in date. It has to, it has to have at least six months before it expires on the last day that you are in a foreign country. So it's gotta be good six months from the date that you return. Uh, so look at that when you're looking at your passport so you don't run into that issue because they will consider it, you know, more or less expired if it's, if it's outside of six months before, um, the expiration date even while you're over there, even though it's a good passport. Yeah. And that's kind of a safety thing in case you got stuck or something. Six months seems like a long time, but that's what it is. Um, passports. What
Speaker 1 00:09:10 Is the turnaround or the lead time on getting a passport?
Speaker 2 00:09:12 Yeah, well, very good question. Passports, as of now, they say about 13 weeks. Okay. Um, I would like to say, if it were me personally, I'm gonna give it six months. Um, 13 weeks is four, you know, 4, 8, 12, you know, three Right at about three months. I would prefer to do it about six months out because you never know during covid it was really extended. You don't know when other things can happen or contingencies or whatever it might be. I would really be looking six months out to get my passport renewed if, if I have an expired passport. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:09:43 Does, does, does that star ID that they've put on the Alabama licenses, that
Speaker 2 00:09:48 Doesn't suffice as a passport. No, no, no.
Speaker 1 00:09:50 But, but does that, does that uh, increase or the speed of getting one is, is that something you'd want to have? You
Speaker 2 00:09:56 Know, that, that's a question I don't have the answer to. I have a star id, I don't know that it expedites anything. I mean, you're in some kind of system so it could, um, when, when you send a paperwork off the fact that they see that you are star id, it could, it could speed it up. I don't know that answer, but that's a good question. Okay. Um, but I would still look at, you know, when's my passport expired. If we want to take a trip next year and it looks like it's, you know, got about a year to go, I don't want to play around with it. I wanna go ahead and get a new one for 10 years. Right. So it's an investment worth making so that you have it. You don't have to worry about being under the gun trying to get your passport.
Speaker 2 00:10:26 So that's very important. The other thing to be aware of is, uh, uh, you know, the whole flying situation is, uh, you know, that that's probably the worst part of any kind of travel experience is the flying now. And there's a pilot shortage and worse than that, there's an air traffic controller shortage and you can't fly planes without air traffic control controlling them. And there's a, there's a, there's a, um, there are a bunch of air traffic controllers in training, and that's a several year process. So they are behind the gun on, we we're behind on the number of, of traffic controllers that are needed for the volume of travel that takes place in the United States. Is,
Speaker 1 00:11:02 Is that a function of covid? Did that happen during Covid or is it
Speaker 2 00:11:05 Burnout you? It could've been. It could been because they weren't training 'em during covid. Okay. So therefore there were no new ones coming into it during Covid. So, you know, covid is over and now they're training a bunch of people. And those that retired or came out of it, there weren't new people to replace 'em. So there's like a two year backlog. And I think the same thing could be said for the pilots as well. A lot of them retired during covid. Um, and so there wasn't as much of that training going on. Plus it's just a field where it, it's at the point where there's a lot of senior folks that are flying planes that are retiring and there's not enough young ones coming in to take it. So that probably is not as critical right now as the air traffic controller shortage, but it takes both of 'em to get a plane off the ground.
Speaker 2 00:11:44 And so that is something everybody needs to be aware of. There could be significant snafus in airports. It's a, you know, you gotta have your patience and be willing to, you know, be delayed because there's nothing you can do about that. We all like to be in control. We wanna control our trip, but that's something you have zero control over. You go to the airport and you're totally beholden to, you know, the aircraft, the company that you know, you're flying with, and air traffic controllers and any of those things. The weather, there's things you can't control. So that's something you're gonna have to exercise a lot of patients on. But that would be the other big thing is understanding there are delays and could be delays. Um, and that's just part of the assumed risk. I know some airlines have cut back on routes, but then cut back on the volume of people wanting to fly.
Speaker 2 00:12:26 So therefore you have more people, uh, flying and, and the planes are packed. So, um, the flights I've taken over the past couple years, they're all totally packed. So that's not always fun either, but that's just part of it. If you're gonna travel, you gotta deal with that. So those are the two biggies as far as just the overall international travel experience that you gotta think about before you ever get there as you get your passport in plenty of time and be willing to deal with some international issues. And I always say, you're almost better going through if you're, if you're traveling with a tour company or you know, some kind of international tour, if you let them handle the reservations, they sometimes are quicker at getting things resolved if you have a problem in an airport rather than you personally, because you did your own flight, um, trying to work it out. So there are some benefits to letting other people organize your travel, travel agents or tour operators or whatever. Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:13:14 Are, are you better off going with a professional agent versus, uh, you know, trip advisor.com or
Speaker 2 00:13:20 I like having a name a contact person. I mean, you can get some great deals off the others. I'm not knocking those at all 'cause I have used those. But, um, you know, and, and I'm one of these that I don't really like to tour. I like to do my own personal, I don't like a bunch of people with me when I travel. It's just part of my background. I think you draw less attention when there's less of you, but there are a lot of really good trips out there, and it's almost impossible logistically to, to plan those, um, uh, effectively by yourself, you know, with logistics and with, you know, with all the rooms and, and travel and trains and buses or whatever it is. Um, you spend a year just trying to figure all that stuff out. So sometimes it's easier to go on with the tour group. Yeah. And so I don't knock that at all. And if you are, I think it's better to let that group handle your airplane reservation, because when there is an issue, they work through the airports or through the, through the, um, uh, travel services and try to get your situation cleared up quicker than sometimes you can do it yourself.
Speaker 1 00:14:16 And, and, and, and as you mentioned, you're, you're seasoned, but if I was to fly overseas, it would be for the first time Yeah. And I don't have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah. So that's not something that you just wanna go on the internet.
Speaker 2 00:14:25 Right. If you've never been over there, if you're not meeting somebody over there that does know the area that, you know, um, I I, I would almost recommend doing that. Um, it is, there's an adventure side to trying to figure things out yourself if you have the time and the money and the interest in doing that. But if you don't, you've got, I got eight days or 10 days, I can go take a trip. I almost think, uh, if you don't have the experience and you're going somewhere for the first time, you're probably better off looking at the different tour options that you can, uh, latch onto.
Speaker 1 00:14:49 And, and they're really, uh, trying to entice travelers back overseas for and, and for honest. Absolutely. For honest and very good reason. So I've, I've been seeing great deals Yeah. Uh, beat on a cruise ship or the, you know, the European tours or whatever, but I imagine the scammers are out there too, uh, you know, doing that too. So I imagine there's, there's situations where you could get into a, a prepay situation, so you gotta do your research.
Speaker 2 00:15:11 Absolutely. Go with reputable companies. And it's easy to, you know, Google and find out, you know, the companies that are out there, there's enough people that do traveling. You can talk to almost anybody. A lot of people, have you ever traveled before? Who did you use? And they'll give you a, a yay or a nay on who they use. And if it's a good recommendation, it's probably worth, you know, checking into them. So I always say, you know, get word of mouth recommendations on tour groups.
Speaker 1 00:15:33 Okay. Yeah. That's a, that's all good common sense stuff so far. And it, it is just like anything else where we talk about, uh, you'd say, well, yeah, that's, that's good common sense information, but apparently we're not talking about it enough because people are still making mistakes Yeah. And doing things. So, um, so, so, so I've got my trip planned and I've, I've, I'm going with the reputable group, and I think this is where we're gonna kind of get into the, the, the real meat and potatoes of this. So I'm planning now to go overseas. Um, and, and like I said, I, I would like to get, get down most of this checklist. So what are the things that I need to prepare to have with me for myself and my family that, that you recommend? Is there, is there a checklist or things that you definitely wanna have with you contacts and I mean, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 00:16:15 Yeah. You know, I, uh, first, the first thing I think about when I'm traveling somewhere is health. Okay. I want, I wanna enjoy my, I wanna enjoy my trip, and I certainly don't wanna end up in a hospital in another country. So, um, when I'm thinking about health, I think about what are the, what are the typical bugs and viruses and things that you can get. You know, obviously covid is still out there, but, um, I've been on trips where I think people had covid or have covid, and it doesn't really stop 'em. But, um, there are other things, you know, upper, upper respiratory, IG type problems, all the different things that you can think of that you could get from eating the wrong kind of food or drinking something that didn't, you know, the, the water had something in it, or you picked up a virus.
Speaker 2 00:16:53 You know, the, the stuff for, um, stomach issues, you know, the respiratory type issues. Uh, a lot of times you can get a prescription from your doctor to deal with. For instance, if you get a really bad infection or a, a lower GI type thing, that's really, can be really bad overseas. Um, you know, some doctors will prescribe Cipro, which is a really strong antibiotic that they'll prescribe for you to go on the trip. So I always think of those kind of things. What am I gonna need so that I don't get sick? And if I do get sick, what can I take? And so I always think about, think of your health first and well, what are the types of things that you could possibly get when you're overseas and have some kind of medicine that will counter that, or that will help you get over it.
Speaker 2 00:17:31 Um, so that would be the most important thing. I think some people get overseas and they don't think about it, and they get sick, and then they're looking for a local pharmacist and store it, then get something you don't wanna do that, you just wanna have it with you. Uh, when you do bring it over, keep it in the container of the box that it comes in. Because sometimes if they see loose things like that in your, your luggage, they'll confiscate it. They don't know what it is. They may question you really hard about what is this, but it needs to be in the packaging that it came in so that you don't run into that. So that's something important to think about. But think about all the things that affect your health. You can really boost your immune system when you're flying and you're in close quarters and you have all these, uh, all these people around you, if, particularly if it's a really long flight, um, you can boost your immune system with airborne and these high con, high, uh, concentrations of vitamin Z, uh, C and zinc.
Speaker 2 00:18:17 There's off, off store brands that you can get for that. But, um, you can take that while you're on the plane to really boost your immune. And sometimes that helps you. And also if you end up getting a little bit of a cold or something, you can take that when you start getting the cold. And it will sometimes knock it off really fast. So those are the kinds of things I like to think about right off the bat. The other thing is thinking about what is the country I'm going to, you know, you have a lot, I guess Europe's probably the most, uh, the, the, the destination choice for so many people. Um, Mexico, those kind of places. I'm, I'm real leery about traveling to Mexico right now. Personally, I don't know that I would do it because there are a lot of issues going on in different places. There, there are safe areas you can go in Mexico, but I'd be really, I'd, I'd really do your res research before you go over there. Even there's been a lot of cartel activity that's spilled over on some resorts mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, and you know, you think you're safe on a resort, but unfortunately some of that has started spilling over. And so I'm concerned about Mexico. Um, most of your, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:19:11 I was remembering back even years, uh, when I went to, on the cruise that we went to and went to Cozumel. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, and, and you're fairly safe on a cruise ship and you're fairly safe in the Porsche. But I think we went to Cozumel, grand Cayman and, uh, then Jamaica, three different, completely different experiences. But I remember Mexico because even then 20 years ago, my wife wanted to do the excursions to go find the Aztecs. Uh, yeah. And I was like, honey, you don't know me very well. This is your husband you're talking about you wanna get me on a Jeep and go deep into a foreign country where I don't know where I'm headed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But also where we don't know who we're dealing with. Yeah. Now we went to Grand Cayman, didn't really have that problem.
Speaker 1 00:19:46 Very friendly country. Yeah. Uh, Jamaica was one of those where we got there and the only time we took an excursion, we found a, a recommended, uh, tour guide. And he took us around for the day, but he took us to places and he offered to take us deeper into the, into the, the mountains there, where his family was for some really good barbecue, but we would've stayed with him the whole time. Yeah. And found that, found that guide. So they, I, I think that is the thing. You get to these, uh, some countries and just, you know, there's this assumed, you know, we're safe here because this is a destination port with a ships are landing, or those kinds of things. Yeah. I, I
Speaker 2 00:20:16 Think, I think one thing, and that's a good point that you bring up, that if you are with an organized cruiser ship, you can book those kind of excursions on the ship. And they typically are pretty good at knowing who they're dealing with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're not gonna port it a at a stop that there's a real danger. They're, they have ways that they convert and do other things. So I think, you know, on, on a cruise line going to Mexico and some of those spots that they stop at, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. 'cause again, the cruise ships have their own, you know, um, uh, sources that they pay attention to on safety and those kind of things. And if you're booking things through the crews, you're probably okay. If you get off the ship and someone comes up to you wanting to book something, I would be really leery of that. Yeah. So, um, that, but that is a good point. Um,
Speaker 1 00:20:57 Yeah. Alright. So, uh, you know, we're, we're talking again, again about things to, to take with you. I see here. And again, I didn't mean to knock you off here.
Speaker 2 00:21:05 Well, one thing I will say, though, if you're going to a destination, one thing that I always tell people, you know, we talked about the health and we talked about what are the immediate things I can do about my safety. Um, I, I think something that a lot of people don't know about, and particularly if you're going into countries that are a little bit more third world ish, where there could be, you know, flare ups and things that happen that they might have to do an extraction or something like that. Um, you know, a lot of the African countries come to mind. But, uh, there's a, there's an, there's a state department site called Step S T E P. It stands for Smart Traveler Enrollment Program. Okay. S T E p Super easy to enroll in that. And what that does is that, uh, allows the state department to know exactly your itinerary. You can say, I'm gonna be here on these different days. If there were an issue in one of those countries, they're gonna, they're gonna push out a notification to you. They'll have, you know, you can give 'em a cell phone number, your email, whatever's best for you to give messages while you're gone. And so,
Speaker 1 00:22:01 So that's definitely a, a, a pre-trip checklist. Make sure it, it, you need to make sure I get on the step before Yeah. Make sure I got on the steps.
Speaker 2 00:22:06 S t eep State Department, go to the state departments types, type in step, you know, safe, uh, state Department off Google, whatever. Yeah. You'll get to the program, you enroll in it, you tell them what countries you're going to, what the date you're gonna be there. And then I've, I use it, you know, when I go to Uganda and when I've been even to Greece a couple years ago, um, and I've gotten notifications. I've been to South Sudan too, and I had it for that. And I've, I still get notifications about what's going on in these countries, which is kind of neat to see what's happening. But when you're over there, if something's happening, they'll tell you where this is happening and you know what to avoid so that you're aware that, hey, I'm in a country where this is happening somewhere else in the country.
Speaker 2 00:22:43 Wow. Yeah. And it may be right where you are, but if there were something that happened where they had to get you out of there, the State Department can quickly identify, Hey, here's X amount of people that we know are in this country right now, and here's their contact. We can give them instructions on how to get out. Um, you know, state department as far as the source of intel and real good information about what's going on in countries, um, not, it's not my favorite, um, but if there is something major happening, they're pretty good at knowing that there is something happening. Um, and the step program, from what I know, seems to work pretty well. So it, it, it's the best thing out there probably to keep somebody in the United States aware of, of where you're traveling, if there were an emergency that they had to get you out. So.
Speaker 1 00:23:24 Alright. And, uh, you, you've got a contingency plan note here about, uh, about money. Uh, so, so again, we we're in the pre we're in the prepar preparatory phase of our trip. What do we need to think about as far as money goes? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:34 Money. You know, um, I prefer to use plastic, uh, credit card. Most every place takes that, but they don't all, again, it depends on the country. If you're in one of the normal European countries, most everybody's gonna take a credit card. Um, people, I, I always like to have some cash in some of the currency of the country I'm going to before I get there. You can do a t m exchanges, you can go to banks and get exchanges, but typically there's a transaction fee for exchanging overseas. So you're gonna pay a little bit when you may pay seven or 10 bucks. When you go to the a t M to get a hundred, a hundred euros out of the a t m, there's gonna be a transaction fee. Um, you could get the euros if you're thinking ahead enough here in the country. I think, I think AAA will do that if you're a member.
Speaker 2 00:24:14 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and your banks, a lot of the banks can't get hold of that money, but they can't get it right away. Sometimes they have to order the money. So, you know, you need to plan a couple months out if you only want to take currency for that country over there. Um, when people say, how much money do I need to take, you know, I like to say $200, um, of your own money that you could change over there. And maybe it's a mix of partially the other country's currency and your money just so that you have some of yours and some of theirs. And that gets you through the first day or two if you are, you know, you're needing cash. Um, and then what you do, if you have a lot of elect uh, leftover euros and all, you kind of pace it and, you know, I got four more days over here.
Speaker 2 00:24:51 Let me buy a few meals with my le my money I have so that I'm not taking on a bunch of euros. So there's ways that you can have that and, and, and still util use the money even if you weren't planning on using that much cash so that you're not going home with a bunch of leftover, you know, euros or currency from whatever the country is. So, yeah. Oh, and one other thing I'll say is ATM scams are more prevalent overseas. Go to banks, go inside banks and use the ATMs inside the bank. Try to avoid the street ATMs. If you do go to an at t m on a street, make sure one of your buddies or somebody's with you that is standing kind of behind you so that somebody can't see the number you're typing in, and that it's also a protection thing so that they're looking at other people that might be looking at you, but never go to an at m by yourself in another country. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:25:35 Alright. I, I think on the, uh, and I said that there may be some more pre, you know, checklist here for, uh, you know, again, again for family or whatnot. But just, just to step on the cyber side, since this, this is a cyber show, uh, you know, you know, the equipment that you wanna take overseas, we were talking about that just, you know, before we went live with this, um, we always recommend not taking, you know, laptops or anything that would've, any sensitive data. In fact, if you're going to, you know, go overseas and wanna buy, you know, an iPad or something to take, because the first thing is that there's no, there's no privacy, there's no sense of privacy when you land overseas. They can, they can immediately seize, especially if you go to a country that's not very friendly with us, for whatever reason, they can immediately seize, uh, all of your electronics.
Speaker 1 00:26:19 Yeah, that's good. Un un under the guise of we need to inspect this. But then while they've got it, in fact the, uh, you know, they, they, they, they, they can tamper with it then come into your hotel rooms. There's cases there, I've seen some great F B I presentations where videos were, were, were taken, taken, uh, where, you know, the, the team would come in and, you know, and, and be the housekeeping people and a guy in a suit and they're looking through, you know, everything that's there. But, uh, the F B i, as a matter of fact, and I think this may be referenced on the, on the steps site, but the F B I here at the local office will, if, if you're, if you have to go overseas for business, they, they will actually, uh, open your laptop up and photograph it for you.
Speaker 1 00:26:56 Uh, and they have found cases where they come back and screws are turned. Yeah. You know, and things like that. Um, you know, once you get over there, then there's the, a lot of things about staying off the wifi and using your own V P N and I, I do wanna talk about that more. But, uh, it is just the, I mean, I mean even your phone, these, these, these are valuable devices overseas. Uh, but you know, you certainly wanna take and be able to communicate and have pictures, but you wanna make sure that you've removed anything sensitive off of there. Yeah. Because that device, you know, can easily be taken or seized by, by authorities. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:26 Um, well, and you said a few things there that are, are, are are really good things for me to come back on regarding, you said, you know, securing it in a hotel room. I, I, I personally, I personally never use a hotel safe. Uh, some people do and they promote, Hey, we have a safe in the hotel, but hey, if you, what happens when you forget the combination, somebody from the hotel comes and opens it up with their own key. So they're not, they're not at all secure. Anybody can get into that. Any employee of the hotel can pretty much get into that safe. So I never, your, your passport is your ticket home. I I maintain positive control of my passport, um, or my shop records or anything I might need in that country, uh, on my person. When I say positive control, it's like what we used to do in the military with, you know, handling classified top secrets, those kind of things.
Speaker 2 00:28:08 Positive control. You're always feeling it. It's on you. It's never left by itself anywhere. It's the same thing with a passport. I'm feeling it on me day and night. Even in the sleeping. I mean, it's in something. Yeah. Where it's never sitting on a table or anything. Um, so, uh, I would never put it in a hotel safe. When you go out to sight scene, do other things, have it with you, um, that's your ticket home and you can't lose that. Regarding passports. One other thing, make a photocopy colored copy of the front of the passport that has your picture and the data of, you know, when it expires and all that on it. Take a co take a photocopy picture of that front page of the passport with you and keep a color copy with somebody back home. Hmm. If you lost your passport, uh, you want to be able to provide, you know, the counselor with a color copy version, it's a lot easier to get your passport replaced if it's in color and you've got an actual copy of it.
Speaker 2 00:28:59 And if for some reason you didn't have a copy, you have someone at home that does that can get it overseas to you. So always make a copy of your passport, leave it with somebody, take another copy with you and put it somewhere away from you if you're out and about. It's sitting in a bag in your hotel, you know, in some kind of safe, uh, folder or compartment of your bag or backpack or whatever. So, um, always do that. The other thing you mentioned the, the, the phones. I take a phone with me because it is my camera. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, honestly, they take better pictures than cameras do from what I've seen traveling. So I like to use it as a camera. I think taking data off that is not, that you can take off and pull back on is important. If you can do that. Um, A V P N to me is very important. If you don't have a V P N, uh, boy, I should know the acronym. Virtual Protocol Network.
Speaker 1 00:29:43 Virtual Private network. Private
Speaker 2 00:29:45 Network. Yeah. Um, that keeps, that keeps your identity safe, basically, because it doesn't, um, it, it, it, it, it, it pings off servers in other countries from where you're actually at or other servers in a country that you're, that's not you. So, um, it keeps your information safer than about anything out there. Having a V P N I re I recommend it for here. I have my phone has it. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Um, so I think VPNs are very important if you do take your phone, um, and purses and wallets. You talked about wallets and how they can, you know, they can get your data without taking your phone. Well, they can also get your credit card numbers and all just, they have devices that can suck it outta your pocket, you know, without it ever coming outta your pocket. They can get your data. And so there are wallets and purses that have, uh, the, the lead coating or the, I don't think they call it lead, but there's a coating on 'em that keeps the signals from, you know, being compromised. Yeah. That you can buy in most travel stores, you can look online and get a lot of that kind of stuff that just keeps your stuff safe when it's just,
Speaker 1 00:30:41 Well, I, I, I think it goes back to, to what you said earlier about you not wanting to be in a big group, being a tourist, but understanding that when you do come into a country, um, you are, you're, you're going to, I mean, we have that same technology here. There's RF scanners here, right. But there, you're in a target rich environment 'cause they know where you're at. Right. I mean, when you come off that cruise ship,
Speaker 2 00:30:59 They know it's a bunch of Americans. They have a lot of, you know, there's a lot of money. They're all rich according to, you know, foreigners. They think everybody's got money. So, um,
Speaker 1 00:31:06 But, but, but if I was gonna sit there with an RF scanner and figure out, well, where do I wanna be today to get the most traffic? I would be sitting at the end of the pier with a, you know, a, a a I might even have be selling umbrellas or whatever, but I have my little RF scanner going the whole time. Absolutely. Picking up.
Speaker 2 00:31:19 They know exactly. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1 00:31:20 Right. Alright, we're, we're at a break point here and I hate to, to break the momentum, but I'm, I need to That's okay. I, I need to, uh, go ahead and do this. So we're going to go ahead and wrap this first part 'cause I think we're gonna run an hour with this easy. Uh, this is really going well. Um, but, uh, I wanna thank everybody for, uh, tuning into part one. We're gonna get part two up probably in a week or two. So, so definitely come back and look for that. We're gonna continue on talking about now once you've gotten to the foreign country, we've got the list of things to do and not do there. Plus talking about some of the hotspots and, um, and then, and then what to do if, if, if, if a worst case scenario begins to unfold. So, so we we're gonna be back with Doug Wilson with Counter Threat Group, um, and of course in Rus Dorsey with, uh, cyber Matters part of the Kaso Podcast network.
