Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:04 Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Cyber Matters, powered by the s So Podcast Network. I'm your host, uh, Russ Dorsey. I'm a principal and c i o at SSO and Company here in Birmingham. And with this podcast we talk about, uh, the cyber that matters to us and our clients, uh, and their families, businesses. Um, it's may maybe less technical, uh, and more about how this technology benefits us and how we can make the most out of it, and how businesses are using it, but also very much how we have to protect ourselves, uh, in, in this modern world with everything's fast changing as it is. Um, I'm very excited today to have, uh, a guest, uh, Lynn Shobe. I'm gonna bring you, bring you on camera here. Uh, uh, Lynn is, uh, currently, uh, with the Jefferson State Police, Jefferson
Speaker 2 00:00:48 State Community College Board,
Speaker 1 00:00:49 Jefferson Community College Police. Today we're gonna be talking about financial fraud and scams, specifically more the, uh, email and phone and in-person type. And we'd say, well, why is that on a cyber show? Well, a, it needs to be done 'cause this is still a huge problem. It's a huge problem affecting our families and, and our, our parents and aunts and uncles. Um, but also this, there's a cyber component behind this because before they, to find the victim, they're still doing all of that coaling on the back end of social media and all of this data mining to find these, the, you know, the, these, uh, the, these, these targets. Um, so that's, that's kind of how we're getting it into our scope today of, of, of talking. But I, I think this is gonna be a really nice, um, departure into something or an important departure into, into, into something, uh, that we all, uh, need to be aware of.
Speaker 1 00:01:36 And that is one of the comments we made about, you know, if we're saying things over and over and over again, it's 'cause the problem hasn't gone away. Absolutely. Right. I mean, that's, it continues to be a multi-billion dollar a year problem, but, but your, uh, career into financial, uh, fraud investigation. I'm, I've got it written down over here, so I'll get it right. But you're a certified Fraud Examiner and also certified financial Crime investigator. Um, and I, I just, uh, to quickly go through your career starting about the time I, I know you were in the Army,
Speaker 2 00:02:05 Right? Actually it started before that, um, last month I hit my 49th anniversary in, uh, public law enforcement. Okay. I did eight years in local law enforcement in Tennessee, and then five and a half, uh, in the Army. Um, at the end of that timeframe, I was teaching at the Army Military Police School and was the chief of the economic and Computer Crime branch, uh, at the MP school when I met some people from the Treasury Department. And, uh, one day they called and said, do you wanna recruit me away from the Army? And so in 1987, I left active duty and went to work for the Treasury Department, uh, initially for what was known as the I r S inspection service. And then in 1999, Congress moved that to, uh, uh, main treasury under the new name Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. And that's where I was until I retired from there in 2008 and then went to work for the state and retired, uh, as a senior special agent from the State Bureau of Investigation in 2019 when I joined the college system.
Speaker 1 00:03:04 Yeah. You, you, you keep using this word retired as if you've not as if you're not working anymore.
Speaker 2 00:03:11 But, uh, no, I'm, I'm blessed to be able to, to, I'm drawing three retirements and, uh, uh, just doing this because I want to. That's,
Speaker 1 00:03:18 That is a great place to be. But, but, but, but working with the college system where you are now, you, you were just, you were telling me that you're doing like special projects. That's right. You get farmed out and like for instance, you're at, at Marion Military Institute, you're helping stand up the
Speaker 2 00:03:30 That's right. One of my responsibilities to help stand up. Uh, over the last two years, we've, uh, stood up eight new police departments in the two year college system. Yeah. And so, uh, this is the third time I've been farmed out to be the interim chief of police at a different college, uh, while we're getting the infrastructure in place.
Speaker 1 00:03:46 Yeah. That's the, that's, that's, that's paying it forward. And I, I can't thank you enough, uh, for, for your service in, in all these public sectors. Uh, it it's very humbling to be here 'cause I'm just a pedestrian civilian who's worked in the private sector, but to have that much impact, and thank you for that. But along the way, you, you got really deep into financial, uh, crime investigation, but also the fraud aspect. Um, you were telling me there's about a, a 15, 20 year stint there where you're really focused on that, um, and that you continue to stay involved in that. And I've, I've heard you speak through, through InfraGard, which is I think where we met, um, and, uh, you were on a couple of our financial fraud, um, the, the, the things, the things we did through Covid to survive where we were doing all this, this, uh, this broadcasting. But the, what I liked about yours was you were, uh, and, and one of them, uh, you, you, you really got into the psychology of, of the, the, the, the criminal mind, but also how you get into investigating and, um, you know, talking to people through that investigatory process when you're, I guess in, is interrogating the right word? Or just, uh, you know, well, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:04:49 If you're, uh, you know, if you're talking to the bad guy. Um, one of the things that I, um, just because of, of the nature of the work and where the bad guys were located, which was in my situation rarely in Alabama, uh, my focus was mostly on the victim in. And so had a lot of opportunity to work with victims of, uh, uh, financial fraud. And, um, I learned a lot more about the, uh, victimology, um, side of the house as opposed to working with the, the bad guys. Most of the time, the bad guys were somewhere else, and I was feeding information about the particular victim back to, uh, the case agents in another jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 00:05:27 Yeah. The other aspect of that, in one of the, and I think the next year you came back was then you were talking specifically about, uh, the elder fraud aspect of this, the phone and the, the, the, the postal mail scams, I mean, good old snail mail, still very effective. Um, so we're going to today talk in, I hope of both areas. Um, and, but, but, but in this first segment, um, you know, I, I think if, if we look around what's common about scams, and again, I'm, I'm, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll say, you know, on the onset I'm blessed, uh, still that my, my parents are both very sharp. I talk to 'em about, uh, I talk about this to them as often as I can, and they, they, they pretty much shut me down, that they're watching the shows, they know about the stuff, about the time I get it outta my mouth.
Speaker 1 00:06:11 And my mom is, uh, and is very skeptical. Of course, she's blaming my father for being the one that's gonna get on the computer, but I'm still blessed to have, you know, pretty good conversations, uh, with them. Um, but anybody can fall victim to this. There's several kinds of scams, you know, there's, there's, there's the, uh, you know, well, I wants to get into the, there's the short term, you know, where the casting the wide net, but then they're the ones where they really get their teeth into somebody and go for what I call the lone con. I think pig butchering and these other terms are, you know, what's being used for that. But, but what do you find, you know, if, if, if we're getting this out to people, what do you find to be the common, uh, you know, are most effective scams? You know, I know there's gonna be some general questions, but what, what do you see as, as the most common threat right now, and what do you see?
Speaker 2 00:07:00 Well, the one thing I want to remind everybody of is that, uh, um, a couple of my, um, phrases I use over and over is never say never. And that what is old is new again. Um, because we, you know, back in the day, probably all the scams were face-to-face. And, you know, if you, and then with the advent of, uh, the telephone they, or the mail, uh, then people begin to cheat people through the mail. And then with the advent of the telephone, with the different technology and with the advent of, uh, computers and the internet. So if you get in the mindset that I will never be scammed in person because all scams are now on the internet, well, that's not the way that works either. Or that, uh, scams no longer occur on the telephone. So every time you think you're dealing with a different level, then, um, always remember that they're gonna double back and, and use the more common things.
Speaker 2 00:07:57 So there are gonna be some face-to-face things. Uh, one of the, uh, the biggest, um, indicators of a scam is, um, that's gonna be an overwhelming sense of urgency that you, whatever it is that they want done, it must be done right now. Uh, if it's, um, an investment opportunity, it must be done right now, if you're about to win a sweepstakes or a lottery, it must be done right now. If you want to avoid going to jail or, um, running afoul of a, um, some sort of a criminal investigation, uh, it must be done right now. You've got to go right now and get the money and, and transmit it in whatever fashion that they, they say. And, and even that, uh, goes back to, you know, whatever's new. And, you know, sometimes they would ask for currency, sometimes for cashier's checks, uh, sometimes now the, uh, very common that they will, uh, have the individual to go to where we would call an a t m for cryptocurrency, uh, and by the cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 00:08:57 And then of course, the other individual has all the information. The bad guy has the information as to, um, how to get the proceeds. Uh, so, um, uh, how the money is, is transferred, uh, is gonna go back and forth, uh, in terms of old ways, new ways, and whatever. But, uh, there's always gonna be that overwhelming sense of urgency. Whatever it is, it's gotta be done right Now, if it's about an opportunity, uh, another, uh, big indicator is going to be that it's, uh, sounds too good to be true. So anything that sounds too good to be true probably is. Yeah. So those are gonna be two very, uh, very big indicators.
Speaker 1 00:09:35 And, and if, and when you're talking about in person, I mean, there's still, uh, caregivers, um, people that might have, uh, power of attorney for whatever reason. I know there's people that, uh, manage, uh, what the court appointed, uh, caregivers that are managing people while they're in, uh, uh, retirement homes or what, whatever. There's the, what's the term I'm looking for,
Speaker 2 00:09:56 For that?
Speaker 1 00:09:56 Conservators. Conservators, thank you. Um, so it's, it, however the connection happens, be it technology, the phone, the mail, or this in person need to be, to have this person in a, in my life or in my parents' life or, or whatever. Then you've got this, everything else, like you said, just becomes the old same old tricks. They're just finding, you know, they're just finding a, a new way to deliver them. The, the things you see, again, you know, in, in, in the cyber world, we look at again, what we call the wide net, the phishing attacks versus the spear phishing. So you've got the, you know, and, and, and I think about, um, you know, the, um, I, I think coming out of India, the, the, the warranty scams where they're just calling up to say, Hey, we we're here to renew your, uh, your Maytag warranty on your washer, and they're hoping to make a quick $200 and move on. Um, do you see, you know, do, do you see more of that or do you see, I, I guess with what you're doing, you've really, you get involved, I guess, when there's already been a criminal complaint. Maybe somebody calls you into consultancy, you're seeing the ones that have turned into 50,000, a hundred thousand dollars losses where they've really gotten into somebody's savings. So you see more of that. I,
Speaker 2 00:11:04 I have seen, um, a lot of that, um, as a matter of fact, so much so that, um, I've said in the homes of, of victims where something was reported to us that fell within the purview of my agency, uh, only to find that the victim that I'm talking to has been victimized over and over and over and over with variations of other scams that would've not fallen in our purview. I'm just now getting there. I'm just now finding out about that. But they've lost tens of thousands of dollars over a period of time. And, um, the, the, it has gotten so bad, uh, that on multiple occasions, while I'm sitting in the home of the victim trying to conduct an interview, the bad guys are calling while I'm sitting there, um, interrupting my ability to conduct an interview. Because, because they're, they're being scammed over and over and over.
Speaker 2 00:11:57 And, and one gentleman in particular, um, called us up one day and, um, it was the first time they'd ever mentioned anything about the I r s, uh, as part of the scheme. And he thought that odd, so he called the actual i r s, they called me, I go out and I'm sitting talking with a man. And, uh, it turns out that, uh, the call that he got, that he called us about was the third he had gotten that day alone. And after he called us, he got two more, and he sent money to the other two <laugh>. And by the time I could get there, uh, on the same day, um, I mean, that was at least five different fraud schemes that he was being attacked by on just in one day. And this had been going on for months, and he'd lost some untold amount of money. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:12:45 I mean, that's,
Speaker 1 00:12:47 As you know, as, as, as far as our, our over 55, which, you know, we, we both are. I remember when I started getting the ARP cards a few years back, that was a good feeling. Um, you know, that puts us also on list, because those are readily available list. And also, the other thing, and I, I don't have the numbers, but our, our, our el our retired population holds the most wealth, obviously 'cause of where they're at in life. I mean, so we're talking about individuals that even if they've had a pretty humble life, they worked at maybe a factory or maybe worked in a, a mid of, they still had hundreds of thousand dollars in the bank, you know, because they've been able to save up over time, and this is their retirement. Um, that's more money than a lot of small businesses have in their bank accounts week, week to week, you know, uh, so it, uh, but, but what is the, I mean, what is the psychology behind, I guess we talk about the, the criminals we know what motivates them and that they're, you know, obviously attempt to this.
Speaker 1 00:13:39 But when we think about our parents, um, you know, this is a smart generation. I, I said before, this is a generation that won a couple of World War. They, they, they won a couple of, at least one world war, uh, you know, got, got to the moon on slide rules. You know, uh, these, these are not, you know, people that you would think would just at this point in their life. But is it, is it the trust factor? Is it just, I mean, I, I know there's diminished capacity comes to play. It does, but I think the trust factor, I mean, 'cause they will answer. I mean, that's, they'll answer the phone. I, I refuse to answer the phone and hold my wife. My wife is to that point. Now she's gotta know who's calling. Even if it's to tell the guy off <laugh>, you know, she'll, she'll engage just to tell the guy to go pound sand and feel some gratification. I'm like, you shouldn't have even given him that moment with you.
Speaker 2 00:14:24 Yeah. Actually, if you answer the phone at all, it's probably an indicator that that's actually a working telephone and somebody might answer. Um, and in some of the schemes, um, no matter it's gonna start as one thing, and then if they feel confident, uh, that they've got you on the hook and they're gonna continue, and for a long time there, I could pretty much write the script. That is what's gonna happen. The first set of calls are gonna sound like this, and then it's, oh, well, something else has come up and now you need to send more money. And once you do that, well, something else has come up, you gotta send more money. And then ultimately, uh, it would, um, switch off and really the same set of bad guys, but not known to you, that's the same set of bad guys are now gonna call and what we call the recovery room schemes.
Speaker 2 00:15:10 And they're gonna claim to be some sort of, uh, law enforcement entity or government agency that's investigating the fact that you have been scammed. And that, uh, uh, sometimes they'll even tell you that we, we can see here that, uh, you sent money to so-and-so, and they'll know the dollar amounts. And so that will bolster the confidence of the victim because yeah, this person knows. So surely, uh, they are a real law enforcement entity. Um, I've had 'em call and say they were from the, uh, Nevada State Attorney General's office, and they'd executed a search warrant on a telemarketing, uh, operation there, and they could see about the, where he had sent money and they had recovered his, the supposed winnings, and that they were gonna get those out to him. But then immediately we turned back into, so all you need to do now is send this amount of money to us.
Speaker 2 00:15:59 And it was always about more money. More money, more money, yeah. Even though they claim to be somebody completely different investigating the bad guys. Um, I've had 'em claim to be attorneys that were filing class action lawsuits against a corrupt telemarketing organization. Um, and they were gonna get you three times your money back, but you had to send legal fees. Um, and then when we talk about the, the victims on the front end, like a little bit of diminished capacity, um, I, I had a coworker one time and that would sometimes talk about what people were saying. And so I would, uh, I say, well, did you have confidence in what they said? She, well, yes. I said, what do you think the word conman came from? That's, that's exactly what it is. So if they got a good enough spiel and you have confidence in what they're telling you, and then they get you talked into to doing it for whatever reason, and sometimes it's gonna be about winnings, sometimes it's to avoid negative consequences, whatever it is, if they can talk a good game, get you started, then they're gonna continue doing that.
Speaker 2 00:17:03 Um, if you're victimized, there's kind of a, uh, we talked about the victimology thing for a moment. We, um, first of all, you're gonna be in denial. You don't really want to admit that you've just been taken, and then it kind of turned into other things, and you're gonna hide the fact probably from other, uh, family members. Uh, uh, a lot of older, uh, citizens are concerned about losing their independence, don't want their kids involved in their business. And so they'll kind of hide the fact that that's happened. Um, and then I've seen it turn into, uh, almost like a gambling addiction. They've lost money regularly to multiple schemes. And the next one we'll call, and their mentality is, I've only gotta hit once and then I'll stop.
Speaker 2 00:17:56 I can't tell you the number of victims I work with, where that's the point that they've gotten to. If I just, I, I'll recoup all the money I've lost across the board with one of these, and then I'll stop. And that's never gonna happen. I've also had them get, uh, to the point where the same gentleman, uh, that I was telling you about, that, uh, we had five schemes on the same day, and he'd been cheated out of a lot of money over a period of several months. Um, after we would work with him, he actually even had, you know, wired up. He would participate in the investigations. We, we recorded telephone conversations from his home, uh, with the bad guys. So he was heavily involved in the investigative process. And then he would call us up on the phone, Hey, I just got a telephone call from an attorney in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 00:18:45 He's, uh, gonna file this class action lawsuit against these corrupt telemarketers, gonna gimme three times my money back. But he said, I gotta send him $500 in legal fees. And then he would say, I'm giving you one hour to prove it's a scam. Or I'm sending the money. I mean, almost angry at us. I mean, they're, they're that, uh, that's how I've seen them go from being taken, being in denial, then getting desperate enough that they will continue doing that to only have to hit once, to actually being almost angry at the investigators. There's, there's,
Speaker 1 00:19:20 There's an indi an indignation over what's happened to them and that they're now Yeah. And I, I, I think that's something we all, uh, can get through. Those can't get to that stage where now I'm, now I'm aware of. So, but then you're just susceptible to the next, to the, we, the victims ourselves, because we're not being aware of things, which is the nature of, of, of life <laugh> or somebody we care about. So, uh, I'm going to assume that, you know, I'm smart enough to maybe protect myself. So what do I need to be looking for for the people that I care about to be able to tell them? Um, or what would you tell me, say, rush you. You're not that smart. What do you, yeah, one
Speaker 2 00:19:56 Of starting off first from talking about how the individuals can kind of, uh, protect themselves. Um, one of the, uh, it doesn't really matter if, if it's in-person contact, because this may be like businesses, um, like home repair, scams, things like that. People will approach you, uh, or it could be like an impersonation from a bank. We call it the bank examiner scam, or, uh, pigeon drops where somebody approach you in the parking lot, say, Hey, we found this money and we're gonna be able to share in this money. Uh, but then in order to, for good faith, they'll say, okay, you need to put up money in the meantime. Uh, the other two people in this thing are part of the scheme, and you're, you're just the person that might get duped into doing that. And to show you how that can work. I had a, a good friend that was a police officer who was taken for $11,000 in one of those, those, uh, where he went to the bank and got money out thinking that he was gonna be able to partake in, in this other found money type situation. And through sleight of hand, uh, whatever they gave him back was nothing more than newspaper clippings. So,
Speaker 1 00:20:59 So, so, so, so as a rule there, I think it's pretty safe to say there's nothing that's gonna come to you out of the universe that you should put money into expecting a return out of. Now if you go find an opportunity and you've, and, and you find it that way, you still gotta be careful. But,
Speaker 2 00:21:17 So depending on how, again, the, uh, if, if it's an in-person thing, um, I caution people not to do business with anybody where they didn't initiate the contact. Somebody comes up to your house and say, Hey, we wanna seal your driveway, and you didn't call them. Um, I'd be very skeptical about that and want not do business with those people. Uh, they wanna, they just show up and wanna fix your roof or, or clean your chimney or, uh, those kind of things. A lot of scams involved there where they want the money up front and not do the work or, uh, substandard work or even if it's on the telephone. Uh, and it's some sort of an opportunity, uh, be very skeptical about anything you did not initiate. Don't give them any of your identifying information. And one of the things that they're real big on now, uh, is they will automatically ask for a secondary, uh, method of, uh, contact, such as your, they call it your house.
Speaker 2 00:22:09 They now want your cell phone number. And then anytime somebody asks you to go to a financial institution, will draw money for any reason and want you to stay on the line with them, um, the whole time, got an open line on the cell phone from the time you leave home, the time you go to the bank, they want the phone laid on the counter while you're talking to the teller. You get the money and all the way back home, um, a huge red flag. Um, and so don't give 'em your secondary contact information and certainly don't go anywhere. Uh, when somebody is asking you to, uh, keep them, uh, on the, an open line on the telephone, that can't be good.
Speaker 1 00:22:45 Yeah. That, that, that falls back to that sense of urgency where it's gotta be done right now.
Speaker 2 00:22:48 It, it gotta be done now, which
Speaker 1 00:22:49 Which we already mentioned is a big red flag.
Speaker 2 00:22:51 They don't, and they don't want to, uh, uh, that way they can tell that you're actually doing it. Um, I know back, uh, some of the cases that I'd worked, uh, they would insist that you call, um, FedEx and have FedEx come by the house and pick up the, the money that you're supposed to send them. And then the way they would follow up on with you is they want you to give them the FedEx tracking numbers, uh, so they could, would know for a fact that you had done what it is that they wanted to do. Um, so, and it would be true if, uh, if it was, um, uh, they want the overwhelming sense of urgency and don't deal with anybody that you didn't initiate the contact.
Speaker 1 00:23:30 Okay. So, so we can't just turn off our phones, <laugh>, I was hoping you say, just turn off your phones and don't answer the door, uh, <laugh> and life will be good, but they're, but they're gonna find a way to get to, to get to you one way or the other.
Speaker 2 00:23:43 They will, uh, even if you, um, think you're, uh, savvy enough and you have a caller id, and you look at the caller ID and it looks like a, um, a residence, uh, local number, uh, and you answer it, and it's, even if it's a legitimate company, and I won't call company names, but companies I do business with, I get a call from like somebody's house in the same town that I live in. And when they answer it, it's a sales pitch from a company I do business with. And I'm gonna have to assume for a moment that it was legitimately that company. But why is it showing up on my caller ID the way it does? Um, the other thing is caller ID spoofing is so prevalent that they can actually make it show up if, if they wanna say that there's warrant for your arrest for missing jury duty, and you have to pay money now because of that.
Speaker 2 00:24:30 'cause otherwise you're gonna be arrested, uh, which is a very common thing right now. It may actually show up on your caller ID that the call's coming from the Sheriff's office by phone number and, uh, by name, right on on, right on your caller ID or from a government agency. Yeah. It'll have the name of that government agency on. So if you're savvy enough to think you're screening those, um, when I talk about impersonation investigations to law enforcement groups, and when I teach in the police academy, the only thing I tell 'em is, <affirmative>, no particular law enforcement officer is gonna get the terminology wrong about his or her own agency. Uh, everybody else might. News media's notorious for butchering the names of a government agency, but that individual will not. So like a few months ago, I get a phone call on my own personal cell phone, and the person with a foreign accent starts the conversation. I'm from the department of the Social Security Administration. I said, that doesn't matter what he says after that. Yeah. There is no such thing as the department of the Social Security Administration, he's playing on Social Security Administration. And at that moment that that's an indicator to, you know, hang up, you, they can't, then he can't even get the terminology right. Um,
Speaker 1 00:25:39 Yeah, I, I I think that's, uh, uh, always a good tip. We, we, we give our clients, um, the i r s is gonna send you a registered letter, or if you've gone far enough along with 'em and you're already in the process and agent's gonna come to your door, social security's going to send you by mail. Um, you know, there, there, I don't, I don't know of any legitimate contact that happens by phone. Uh, the police will call if, and we have had phone calls before the F b I will call you if there's an ongoing situation and they're calling to alert you about something, but they're never gonna ask for, you know, anything in return, they're not gonna ask you to
Speaker 2 00:26:14 Go. That's right.
Speaker 1 00:26:15 Yeah. If, if it's a criminal, uh, I mean, just for it, for it to be admissible, they can't call you on the phone and say, Hey, we got this criminal complaint on you, you gotta go get money right now. Right. They're not gonna do that. That's just not how they're gonna engage a warrant. Right?
Speaker 2 00:26:28 Yeah. We're, uh, you know, for a, a small crime, a police department might call you up and say, I just wanna let you know, there is a, a, a warrant has been issued, something you may wanna take care of, but there will never be a day that they're gonna call and say, we're on our way to your house to execute a warrant. And the only way you can avoid that, no law enforcement agent's gonna be in 49 years. I've never heard of such thing that that just does not happen. So, uh, but people will, will be scared that that's gonna happen. Now, occasionally, you know, they'll call the house of, uh, someone that's in law enforcement that wants to play along with 'em, and they'll say, come on. You know, but that's obviously there, there's nobody coming. Um, but they all want you to go out and, uh, buy green.cards or iTunes cards or, uh, something like that just to, uh, to satisfy the thing. Uh, right.
Speaker 1 00:27:15 Yep. And, and, and, and, and then I think, you know, the other thing would be to involve if, if you're, you know, concerned about him, and I, I, I do wanna talk about how to engage law enforcement in the next segment, but relying on family is, is important, uh, just to say, Hey, I've got this going on. And, and this kind of comes around to something that is happening right now that we've heard about is, is the, uh, uh, the, it's, they're calling it the, um, uh, kidnapping scams, but it's also, hey, grandmoms stranded in Florida at Spring Break Scam. That's right. Which they're using AI now to generate voices, uh, with some Yes. Success. Uh, and the families have gotta, you almost have to prepare for that and go, uh, I mean, mom or dad or, uh, my kids, you know, we're gonna have a safe word, or we're gonna have a process for if you ever are in trouble, and I've had this conversation with my kids, if you ever are in trouble, here's the thing we're gonna agree in, in advance that we're going to do, uh, about getting you to a safe place.
Speaker 1 00:28:10 And just have that conversation so that somebody isn't, because even if, you know, uh, and, and, uh, I think, uh, Darren Mott, when he was on here, was talking about that actually happened to his, his mother, and she called him and he said, now the son's right here. Exactly. But had, had he not answered the phone, and she had not been able to get that confirmation in the moment, she might have fallen prey to that. So we have to have some conversation. 'cause that's technology gets more insidiously used Oh, yeah. Than
Speaker 2 00:28:37 The thing about the voice generation. That that is a really scary thing. Um, and because not long ago, my mother called me, uh, or called and talked to my wife, and of course, you know, she's been scammed before. We'll, we've talked about that in the past. But, uh, she actually got a call that reported to be from my son. And, um, fortunately, um, he did not know how my mother was referred to. It's like, if it's a, Hey, grandma, this, that, or the other, well, that's not the way, you know, she knew that she was memaw. Yeah. Okay. So she was able to pick up on the fact that they didn't quite have that part down. Um, but, uh, these family member in distress, like grandparents cams, that's, that's a very real thing. And people will send money. Um, but 'cause the caller will be like, uh, hey grandma. And grandma says, is that you, Timmy? Well, he didn't know to be Timmy yet, but now he does. He said, yes. And then he says, okay, whatever you do, don't tell my, don't tell mom and dad, but here's what's going on. I've been, been involved in an accident, or I'm in a jail in Mexico, or whatever the case may be. And unfortunately, uh, too many people send money and those kind of things.
Speaker 1 00:29:49 Yeah, they do. They, they do. And I think the other thing is, even the, uh, we talked about the authority scams, but imagine you get a phone call from local politician, or it's Nick Saban, or it's somebody like that on the phone. I mean, I, I think this next election cycle, you're gonna see more use of ai, uh, to generate those kinds of things. But, uh, if there's a, you know, known voice in your area or somebody that's, uh, you know, and people will fall, pray to that, we're going to, um, take kind of break here and reset, uh, and come back for our second segment. Um, so, uh, let me get myself up here. Not that people wanna see me, but it makes more sense. Um, but, uh, we, we wanna thank you for this part of the segment, Lynn, um, and, and, and your time.
Speaker 1 00:30:31 Uh, we'll be posting this and then, and then follow up in a week or so with part two. So if you're listing now, we want you to come back for part two of this, where we're going to talk a little bit more about these, the, the different types of fraud and maybe some more, I think get a little bit deeper in some case studies. Uh, but also what to look for with your family, uh, and also, uh, what to do to engage law enforcement, what we'll get in the next segment. So for, for today, I'm, uh, Russ Dorsey, again, your host of, uh, cyber Matters, po uh, powered by the, uh, Kasu Podcast Network. And we'll be back soon with part two.
